I understand that mind is clear awareness and that its natural state is pure and without delusion.
There is both a course mind and a subtle mind. Mind is aware of all that is reflected upon it like a mirror, both peaceful things and disturbing things. But these things are only a reflection and do not pollute the ultimate pure mind. They are temporary illusions that may seem real like a magician’s ticks or like a dream that is not real. Although an illusion, the effects of delusions can be disturbing when they manifest and can produce both mental and physical effects. The effects are reflected in both the course mind and even deeper in the subtle mind.
When a delusion such as desire or hatred arises it can sweep away a sentient being through karma and dependent arising. Without training, a being may reflect the delusion through their own actions, like if one experiences anger and conflict, they may reflect the same actions back.
The only remedy is mind training, to learn how to control one’s course mind at first and gradually their subtle mind too. This gradually teaches one how to recognize delusions and how to diffuse negative actions that may arise, and with much training to be able to completely control one’s own mind to reflect ultimate reality.
The mind is also taught to be like water. When delusions arise, it is like water that is mixed with dirt. But this too is temporary, and with calm water, all dirt will settle and once again the water is pure. Turbulent thoughts and emotions are the dirt that disturbs the mind, but the mind’s essence is always clear.
Geshe-la said water mixed with dirt is dirty water. He said the water is still clear - in this case the water represents the mind. He also said that anger is like dirty water - it's mind, but impure mind. My question is...can he give an example of what might be the dirt itself?
It is clear: it has no physical or material attributes of any sort
It is knowing: it exists in dependence upon an object about which it is conscious
It can be self-knowing; the object of its awareness being the mind itself
It is dependent on its causes, which are its previous moments of existence
In ordinary (unenlightened) beings it is contaminated by afflictive emotions that diminish its ability to see objects as they truly exist
It has four main aspects in ordinary beings: • Feeling – which experiences an object as good, bad or indifferent • Discrimination – which identifies the object of its knowing • Mental formations – which applies different mental processes to the object • Consciousness – which is aware of sensory experiences
It is the sole determinate of how we experience our relationship with others and our surroundings
It is the cause of all suffering and all joy
It can be cleansed of impurities
In enlightened beings it is pure and unsullied, experiencing all objects without attachment, aversion or ignorance
So, what do I know about the mind? Apparently not much! But, here are some thoughts that I think might be true about the mind.
It’s impermanent. It doesn’t “live” anywhere in particular…. it’s not in some compartment in the brain, or a particular organ in the body. However, just as the body is impacted by the health of its organs, the mind’s ability to function is impacted by the health of the brain. Because of its awareness, the mind is also impacted by the condition of the body. For example, if the body has been injured, the mind is aware of pain. So, might we say it is “awareness” or is it “mind” that arises in dependence upon the body and brain? No – we can’t say that because in the Formless Realm there is mind but no body!
Since the mind is impermanent, it can change. Like the body can be strengthened through exercise and good nutrition, the mind can be strengthened through meditation and good “mental” nutrition. I think good mental nutrition is like virtuous actions, and poor mental nutrition is like non-virtuous actions. And through meditation, the mind’s awareness can be changed from dull to sharper and therefore might learn to perceive things differently so that even the painful or pleasurable sensations of the body can impact the mind with less negative influence.
One of the many things I don’t know, and would like to hear your thoughts on, is whether intelligence is a quality that depends on the brain or on the mind. Because the mind definitely benefits from intelligence – or “sharp faculties.” If we accept past lives, and future lives, and if we accept karma, then, like everything else, both intelligence and sharp faculties would seem to depend on karma. But, is the condition needed for that karma to ripen a “brain” or can the mind be considered a condition?
I don’t think mind has form or color or taste or smell, but it is aware of form, color, taste and smell. Maybe the mind simply is awareness.
The mind also is involved in intention, and determining intention is always emphasized in teachings as being very important by making clear motivations before any practice or study, or dedications. We also hear that intention and motivation is a factor in determining the weight of karma. For instance if we accidentally kill an animal that runs in front of our car, it’s carries a different weight of killing karma than if we make a plan to hunt and then kill an animal. So, the mind is an important determiner of karma?
If ,by dedicating a virtuous action, we protect the virtue so that it cannot be destroyed even by anger, then I wonder where that virtuous karma is stored, and how it’s stored differently from un-dedicated virtue? Since dedication is something that is accomplished through thought/directed by the mind, it must at least begin there, but “where” is the “there” in the case of the mind?
In The Sutra about Lady Beauty of Magadha, Buddha’s disciples “manifest” in spectacular ways and forms, like a host of horses in one case, or a tremendous mountain with trees and all sorts of treasures in another case. “What” is doing the manifesting? It seems that mind must be involved in something like that, yet the form associated with it was no longer appearing as the disciples’ ordinary appearance but something very different. So, how does this happen? Does this mean the mind has the potential to conceive of something, and through that conceiving, manifest whatever it is that it conceives? If so, then it must depend on the elements/particles because something without form cannot produce something with form, right? So does that mean the mind does in fact have particles?
I have tried to describe as best I can how I see the mind. Sometimes, in flashes, I think I have some insight into it, but most of the time I’m confused. And, even when I think I have some logical intellectual concept, it seems too abstract and difficult to use in helping me experience emptiness.
• I believe that mind is awareness! I can only detect my mind as the subject of a “thought”, i.e. in the process of being aware of something. At the same time, the mind IS that awareness. There is no awareness outside the mind to be aware of the mind’s awareness of a thought; there is only one completely pervasive interdependent awareness.
• I believe that awareness is a pattern or structured collection in the space of energy/information that is everywhere. The individual patterns of information in such collections constitute the individual patterns of awareness. The awareness defines the structured collection and the structured collection defines the awareness. They are interdependent, i.e ONE. I wonder how to be more of this interdependent reality in my daily life.
• There are all kinds of nodes, collections of nerves/energyinformation channels of all size and complexity that constitute an awareness. The brain is one such node and a very complex one that is usually part of a collection that defines an awareness. At each instant, my mind is reflected in all the other minds, i.e all other perceptions of a defined “structure” of information are interdependent with all the other “minds”. That particular perception of a structure in the space of information defines the mind that perceives it as the mind defines the structure, sort of like the way a cloud take some shape that inspires our image of it and our mind imposes an image on the cloud. There is nothing else.
• I had what seemed to be an out of body experience when in the Danbury Hospital and coming close to dying a couple of years ago. During my third surgery, I watched the surgeons working over me, holding my intestines up out of my body to locate the breaks created by my initial surgery and missed by my second surgery. Similarly, my wife said that she was strongly aware of my presence visiting her at home one morning when I was in the hospital.
Dr. Dan Siegel of UCLA and a group of about 40 other scientists have defined mind as "a regulatory process that can be monitored, measured, observed and modified." While that is an interesting working definition, it does not seem to convey the breadth of what the mind seems capable of experiencing. Another definition says that the mind is subjective awareness with an intentionality. It is able to perceive and respond to stimuli with agency, thinking and feeling. The mental faculties of the mind include thought, symbolic or semiotic mediation of ideas/data, concepts, problem solving, decision making, imagination and memory. This seems like a better definition, but it lacks the spiritual component.
Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Heidegger and others all agreed that the mind is separate from the brain as do the scientists in Dr. Siegel's group. However, there is some debate in my field (the materialists) as to whether or not mental phenomena are identical to neuronal phenomena. Skinner argued that the idea of the mind is an artificial construct, a distraction, from looking at the way people act. I feel that the mind and body are separate. However, I am not quite convinced that that only mental phenomena exist, as it seems that such a belief does not explain what I have observed. Conventional wisdom, as I understand it, does assert that there is a physical world. If that is so, the interplay between the body and mind must exist. Just how does it exist? I treat patients who can "make" themselves sick. They can cause a rash to develop on their bodies. I can hypnotize them and the rash disappears. Clearly, there is a connection. Yes, body is matter and mind is non-matter, but how do they interact? "The internal workings of our minds...cognitive processes, emotions, and so on...relate intimately to how we react to our external environment." How? There is an admonishment to "be conscious of your surroundings and how they affect your mind". Why? How?
Lama Yeshe, as I read, asserted that spiritual means to search for and investigate the mind. In Christianity spirituality is the belief that the mind is distinct from the soul and that when the body dies, the mind dies also. Only the soul moves on to heaven. In Judaism, the mind rules the heart and this current life on Earth is the focus of their beliefs. There is some mention of a place where a soul goes, but it is not the focus in Judaism. Buddhism (and this really confuses me), seems to assert (as best as I can understand) that there is no soul, and that the mindstream continues for eons engaging in habitual patterns from one life to next according to karma. That seems plausible. What I cannot understand is the following: if there is no inherent, unchanging identity (I/me) or phenomena (ultimate self/ Atman or soul) how are karma and habitual thought patterns transferred from one life time to the next? It makes sense to me that once we detach from our ego we can be happy. That part I do understand. If the mind is "clear and knowing" what is clear and knowing? What carries the karma and habitual thought patterns and how can each human life have its own brand of karma and thought patterns if there is no self; no soul? "The final realization of the nature of the mind can only arise through our own experience." This seems to presume that there is an individual attached to that unique experience. How do you explain no self and the transmission through eons of karma?
The concept of a main mind and mental factors is also a bit confusing. If the mind is "clear and knowing" how can there be a "base" "a screen in a cinema, with the mental factors projected upon it."? This seems to suggest something that is not 'clear' or 'knowing' as it can be influenced by mental factors. If a perceptual mind is "unmediated and direct" how can it also be separate from the physical? Could this be something akin to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle? That is, (and I am really simplifying here) that just the act of observing a subatomic particle will alter the nature of what is observed. Where the interaction between the perceptual mind and the object influences each other? The concept of the conceptual mind makes sense to me as that is the part of the mind, I believe, influences how people perceive the world and will cause suffering.
I understand that mind is clear awareness and that its natural state is pure and without delusion.
ReplyDeleteThere is both a course mind and a subtle mind. Mind is aware of all that is reflected upon it like a mirror, both peaceful things and disturbing things. But these things are only a reflection and do not pollute the ultimate pure mind. They are temporary illusions that may seem real like a magician’s ticks or like a dream that is not real. Although an illusion, the effects of delusions can be disturbing when they manifest and can produce both mental and physical effects. The effects are reflected in both the course mind and even deeper in the subtle mind.
When a delusion such as desire or hatred arises it can sweep away a sentient being through karma and dependent arising. Without training, a being may reflect the delusion through their own actions, like if one experiences anger and conflict, they may reflect the same actions back.
The only remedy is mind training, to learn how to control one’s course mind at first and gradually their subtle mind too. This gradually teaches one how to recognize delusions and how to diffuse negative actions that may arise, and with much training to be able to completely control one’s own mind to reflect ultimate reality.
The mind is also taught to be like water. When delusions arise, it is like water that is mixed with dirt. But this too is temporary, and with calm water, all dirt will settle and once again the water is pure. Turbulent thoughts and emotions are the dirt that disturbs the mind, but the mind’s essence is always clear.
Geshe-la said water mixed with dirt is dirty water. He said the water is still clear - in this case the water represents the mind. He also said that anger is like dirty water - it's mind, but impure mind. My question is...can he give an example of what might be the dirt itself?
ReplyDeleteWhat is mind?
ReplyDeleteIt is clear: it has no physical or material attributes of any sort
It is knowing: it exists in dependence upon an object about which it is conscious
It can be self-knowing; the object of its awareness being the mind itself
It is dependent on its causes, which are its previous moments of existence
In ordinary (unenlightened) beings it is contaminated by afflictive emotions that diminish its ability to see objects as they truly exist
It has four main aspects in ordinary beings:
• Feeling – which experiences an object as good, bad or indifferent
• Discrimination – which identifies the object of its knowing
• Mental formations – which applies different mental processes to the object
• Consciousness – which is aware of sensory experiences
It is the sole determinate of how we experience our relationship with others and our surroundings
It is the cause of all suffering and all joy
It can be cleansed of impurities
In enlightened beings it is pure and unsullied, experiencing all objects without attachment, aversion or ignorance
So, what do I know about the mind? Apparently not much! But, here are some thoughts that I think might be true about the mind.
ReplyDeleteIt’s impermanent. It doesn’t “live” anywhere in particular…. it’s not in some compartment in the brain, or a particular organ in the body. However, just as the body is impacted by the health of its organs, the mind’s ability to function is impacted by the health of the brain. Because of its awareness, the mind is also impacted by the condition of the body. For example, if the body has been injured, the mind is aware of pain. So, might we say it is “awareness” or is it “mind” that arises in dependence upon the body and brain? No – we can’t say that because in the Formless Realm there is mind but no body!
Since the mind is impermanent, it can change. Like the body can be strengthened through exercise and good nutrition, the mind can be strengthened through meditation and good “mental” nutrition. I think good mental nutrition is like virtuous actions, and poor mental nutrition is like non-virtuous actions. And through meditation, the mind’s awareness can be changed from dull to sharper and therefore might learn to perceive things differently so that even the painful or pleasurable sensations of the body can impact the mind with less negative influence.
One of the many things I don’t know, and would like to hear your thoughts on, is whether intelligence is a quality that depends on the brain or on the mind. Because the mind definitely benefits from intelligence – or “sharp faculties.” If we accept past lives, and future lives, and if we accept karma, then, like everything else, both intelligence and sharp faculties would seem to depend on karma. But, is the condition needed for that karma to ripen a “brain” or can the mind be considered a condition?
I don’t think mind has form or color or taste or smell, but it is aware of form, color, taste and smell. Maybe the mind simply is awareness.
The mind also is involved in intention, and determining intention is always emphasized in teachings as being very important by making clear motivations before any practice or study, or dedications. We also hear that intention and motivation is a factor in determining the weight of karma. For instance if we accidentally kill an animal that runs in front of our car, it’s carries a different weight of killing karma than if we make a plan to hunt and then kill an animal. So, the mind is an important determiner of karma?
If ,by dedicating a virtuous action, we protect the virtue so that it cannot be destroyed even by anger, then I wonder where that virtuous karma is stored, and how it’s stored differently from un-dedicated virtue? Since dedication is something that is accomplished through thought/directed by the mind, it must at least begin there, but “where” is the “there” in the case of the mind?
In The Sutra about Lady Beauty of Magadha, Buddha’s disciples “manifest” in spectacular ways and forms, like a host of horses in one case, or a tremendous mountain with trees and all sorts of treasures in another case. “What” is doing the manifesting? It seems that mind must be involved in something like that, yet the form associated with it was no longer appearing as the disciples’ ordinary appearance but something very different. So, how does this happen? Does this mean the mind has the potential to conceive of something, and through that conceiving, manifest whatever it is that it conceives? If so, then it must depend on the elements/particles because something without form cannot produce something with form, right? So does that mean the mind does in fact have particles?
What is Mind?
ReplyDeleteI have tried to describe as best I can how I see the mind. Sometimes, in flashes, I think I have some insight into it, but most of the time I’m confused.
And, even when I think I have some logical intellectual concept, it seems too abstract and difficult to use in helping me experience emptiness.
• I believe that mind is awareness! I can only detect my mind as the subject of a “thought”, i.e. in the process of being aware of something. At the same time, the mind IS that awareness. There is no awareness outside the mind to be aware of the mind’s awareness of a thought; there is only one completely pervasive interdependent awareness.
• I believe that awareness is a pattern or structured collection in the space of energy/information that is everywhere. The individual patterns of information in such collections constitute the individual patterns of awareness. The awareness defines the structured collection and the structured collection defines the awareness. They are interdependent, i.e ONE. I wonder how to be more of this interdependent reality in my daily life.
• There are all kinds of nodes, collections of nerves/energyinformation channels of all size and complexity that constitute an awareness. The brain is one such node and a very complex one that is usually part of a collection that defines an awareness.
At each instant, my mind is reflected in all the other minds, i.e all other perceptions of a defined “structure” of information are interdependent with all the other “minds”. That particular perception of a structure in the space of information defines the mind that perceives it as the mind defines the structure, sort of like the way a cloud take some shape that inspires our image of it and our mind imposes an image on the cloud. There is nothing else.
• I had what seemed to be an out of body experience when in the Danbury Hospital and coming close to dying a couple of years ago. During my third surgery, I watched the surgeons working over me, holding my intestines up out of my body to locate the breaks created by my initial surgery and missed by my second surgery. Similarly, my wife said that she was strongly aware of my presence visiting her at home one morning when I was in the hospital.
Dr. Dan Siegel of UCLA and a group of about 40 other scientists have defined mind as "a regulatory process that can be monitored, measured, observed and modified." While that is an interesting working definition, it does not seem to convey the breadth of what the mind seems capable of experiencing.
ReplyDeleteAnother definition says that the mind is subjective awareness with an intentionality. It is able to perceive and respond to stimuli with agency, thinking and feeling. The mental faculties of the mind include thought, symbolic or semiotic mediation of ideas/data, concepts, problem solving, decision making, imagination and memory. This seems like a better definition, but it lacks the spiritual component.
Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Heidegger and others all agreed that the mind is separate from the brain as do the scientists in Dr. Siegel's group. However, there is some debate in my field (the materialists) as to whether or not mental phenomena are identical to neuronal phenomena. Skinner argued that the idea of the mind is an artificial construct, a distraction, from looking at the way people act. I feel that the mind and body are separate. However, I am not quite convinced that that only mental phenomena exist, as it seems that such a belief does not explain what I have observed. Conventional wisdom, as I understand it, does assert that there is a physical world. If that is so, the interplay between the body and mind must exist. Just how does it exist? I treat patients who can "make" themselves sick. They can cause a rash to develop on their bodies. I can hypnotize them and the rash disappears. Clearly, there is a connection. Yes, body is matter and mind is non-matter, but how do they interact? "The internal workings of our minds...cognitive processes, emotions, and so on...relate intimately to how we react to our external environment." How? There is an admonishment to "be conscious of your surroundings and how they affect your mind". Why? How?
Lama Yeshe, as I read, asserted that spiritual means to search for and investigate the mind. In Christianity spirituality is the belief that the mind is distinct from the soul and that when the body dies, the mind dies also. Only the soul moves on to heaven. In Judaism, the mind rules the heart and this current life on Earth is the focus of their beliefs. There is some mention of a place where a soul goes, but it is not the focus in Judaism. Buddhism (and this really confuses me), seems to assert (as best as I can understand) that there is no soul, and that the mindstream continues for eons engaging in habitual patterns from one life to next according to karma. That seems plausible. What I cannot understand is the following: if there is no inherent, unchanging identity (I/me) or phenomena (ultimate self/ Atman or soul) how are karma and habitual thought patterns transferred from one life time to the next? It makes sense to me that once we detach from our ego we can be happy. That part I do understand. If the mind is "clear and knowing" what is clear and knowing? What carries the karma and habitual thought patterns and how can each human life have its own brand of karma and thought patterns if there is no self; no soul? "The final realization of the nature of the mind can only arise through our own experience." This seems to presume that there is an individual attached to that unique experience. How do you explain no self and the transmission through eons of karma?
ReplyDeleteThe concept of a main mind and mental factors is also a bit confusing. If the mind is "clear and knowing" how can there be a "base" "a screen in a cinema, with the mental factors projected upon it."? This seems to suggest something that is not 'clear' or 'knowing' as it can be influenced by mental factors. If a perceptual mind is "unmediated and direct" how can it also be separate from the physical?
Could this be something akin to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle? That is, (and I am really simplifying here) that just the act of observing a subatomic particle will alter the nature of what is observed. Where the interaction between the perceptual mind and the object influences each other? The concept of the conceptual mind makes sense to me as that is the part of the mind, I believe, influences how people perceive the world and will cause suffering.