The Main Mind – SWP Summary of April 22, 2014 Teaching by Geshe Dhargey Mind (Consciousness) can be divided into Seven types – Five of which are sensory main minds (direct perceivers – see * below) where the person is in contact with his/her sense consciousnesses (visual, auditory, olfactory, gustatory, tactile) and the other 2 are conceptual. 1. *Direct Perceiver - Apprehending an object without making user of an internal image or relying on reasoning. 2. *Inferential Cognizer - The object is realized in direct dependence upon conclusive reasons – where there is smoke, there is fire) 3. *Subsequent Cognizer -Realizes what has already been realized through the force of a previous valid cognizer – For example, realizing an object as a subsequent moments through the power of the first moment) 4. Correctly Assuming Consciousness –Beliefs that depend on reasoning (contemplation on correct or incorrect reason) and beliefs that do not depend on reasoning (impermanence) 5. *Awareness to which the object appears but is not ascertained – Clearly Seeing something without realizing it 6. Doubting consciousness –Mental factors that waver in respect to their object – those mental factors can be deluded (and disturb the mind and may shake our faith – like wrong views and imprints of wrong views) or non-deluded (inquisitive doubting not necessarily disturbing to the mind) 7. *Wrong Consciousness – a congnizer who is mistaken with respect to its engaged object - can be non-conceptual wrong (Such as a ball of yarn mistaken for a spider) or conceptual wrong (such as delusions or wrong viewer: dharma). Direct Perceivers are of four types. By the type of objects that they take, they are divided according to the complexity (or subtlety) of their appearing objects: 1. Sense Direct Perceiver – Operating with our five sense consciousnesses. A non-mistaken, non-conceptual knower that is produced from its own uncommon empowering condition, a physical sense power. 2. Mental Direct Perceiver – Direct Perceivers that are not part of the sensory consciousnesses. Can be a moment of direct perception (a directly perceiving mind) or a mental power (mental power produced by meditative stabilization). A result of profound meditation of calm abiding. Can result in clairvoyance like knowing others’ minds, remembering past lives, extrasensory hearing, and so on. 3. Self Knowing Direct Perceiver – Self-cognizers . The aspect of the mind that is self-aware and the source of memory. Allows for self-awareness of self – taking an appearing object as another moment of awareness –this notion is accepted by all schools except Prasangika Madhyamaka. 4. Yogic Direct Perceiver – Realizes impermanence and selflessness which are produced in the mind of a superior. Requires calm abiding and special insight. Also requires training and a clear understanding of the complete process of mental cultivation. Question: According to Buddhism, sense consciousnesses are not merely passive “transmitters”. but do realize their object – like seeing your father (without labeling the object as such which is done by the subsequent conceptual consciousness.) So, I had an experience once where my daughter drove up and stopped in front of me while I was walking and expecting to meet her at her place of work. She smiled at me without saying a word and I did not recognize her as my daughter but rather a nice looking woman. I asked her if she needed directions and when she did not respond, I said I was on my way to meet my daughter and needed to go on my way at which point the woman spoke and said “MOM”. Then I recognized her as my daughter and we were both freaked out (smiley face). So, my concern is that this event does not seem to jive with the notion that the eye can realize it’s object….can you explain this event to me so that it reconciles with the Buddhist view ?
Summary Main mind and mental events not a duality but different functions A main mind without mental factors can not exist , mental factors without a main mind can not exist. The sense consciousness perceives the object directly, mental consciousness elaborates with labels, and conceptualization. All 5 senses are direct perceivers, definition: a non mistaken knower free from conceptuality.
There are 3 beyond wordly mental consciousness's 1) Direct Perceiver: A very advanced practitioner with clairvoyance's, able to remember other lifetimes. 2)Self Knower; directly perceives, has the aspect of an apprehender. The consciousness that experiences eye consciousness is a self knower. Yogic Direct Perceiver; non conceptual ,non mistaken, exalted knower. The uncommon empowering condition is Meditative Stabilization, the union of calm abiding and special insight. All three are incredibly powerful minds!! The 7 types of mental conscious were already covered nicely. Question: Is the mental consciousness of an ordinary person always conceptual?
Unfortunately I don't have the text he refers to in class, but I have been reading Geshe Rabten's The Mind and It's Functions and Lati Rinpoche's Mind in Tibetan Buddhism. Geshe Rabten uses the same terminology as Geshe Darghye is using, but Lati Ripoche's text is much more detailed with regards to the description of mind. He uses words like Cognizers and Perceivers. From what I can tell these are all different ways of describing the mind, or different ways of classifying the aspects of mind. I'm trying to understand how these descriptions relate to what we are learning in class. Are all the Main/Primary Minds Direct Perceivers? Is Primary Mind a Prime Cognizer? Are Mental Factors Inferential Cognizers?
Consciousness can be divided into two types: Contaminated and Uncontaminated. Sometimes the two are referred to as Worldly and Beyond Worldly. By practicing Bodhicitta and Emptiness you can begin purifying the Contaminated Consciousness until it becomes Uncontaminated – even if not entirely pure, it will become much better than before. Every consciousness is either a Direct Perceiver or Conceptual.
The Five Senses and one aspect of the Mental Consciousness are Direct Perceivers. The other aspect of Mental Consciousness is Conceptual. • Mental Direct Perceiving – We have very limited that can only see an image but not through imagination • Self-knowing perceiving – Only some tenets accept this. It is consciousness perceiving itself. Some say that self-knowing reminds us how we (the subject) saw an object. Others say that recollection is not from self-knowing. • Yogic Direct Perceiving is cultivated by meditation. It is “Beyond Worldly Consciousness.” Impermanence and Emptiness are perceived directly through meditation. Conceptual thought is ONLY mental consciousness. Most mental consciousness is conceptual except for consciousness perceiving its own image. Seven Types of Mental Consciousness 1. Direct Perceiver – 5 senses associated with. 2. Inferential – Conceptual only. 3. Subsequent Cognizer – 5 senses associated with 4. Correctly Assuming – Conceptual only 5. Awareness to which Object appears but not ascertained – 5 senses associated with 6. Doubting consciousness - Conceptual 7. Wrong consciousness – 5 senses also associated with. My question is, would Geshe la please say more about the Mental Consciousness that is Mental Direct Perceiving? I have in my notes that we have this only in a very limited way that can only see an image but not through imagination. I might have made a mistake in my notes, because in reviewing them, I’m unclear: How does a mental consciousness SEE an image but NOT through imagination?
The class was a further explanation of direct perception and conceptual understanding. Our five sense consciousnesses possess the ability to directly perceive. Our mental consciousness is capable of conceptualizations and three perceptual understandings: self-knowing (which is not accepted by all tenants), yogic direct perception and clairvoyance. Mental consciousness can also be contaminated, uncontaminated, worldly and beyond worldly consciousness. There are also seven consciousness types which are: direct perception (five sense consciousnesses); inferential cognitions (mental consciousness and conceptual thought); subsequent cognizer (five sense consciousness); correctly assuming consciousness(mental consciousness); awareness to which but is not ascertained (sense consciousness); wrong consciousness (sense consciousness ); and doubt (mental consciousness). Also discussed the need for empowering conditions; preceding and immediate consciousness; and apprehending conditions in order to perceive all three are necessary.
It seems that clearly marking those things which can be directly perceived from those things which are only concepts lays the groundwork for building the argument for perceiving direct reality and our concept of reality and towards an understanding of nothingness? If one understands that what we perceive, even if it is a "direct perception" is filtered through the minds then it becomes more understandable to conceive of all being a construct of the mind? Is the understanding of the mind merely conceptual as only the Buddha is able to directly perceive the mind? We merely see, as the philosopher Plato said, "mere shadows on the wall of the cave which we perceive as reality and are actually just shadows."
The Main Mind – SWP Summary of April 22, 2014 Teaching by Geshe Dhargey
ReplyDeleteMind (Consciousness) can be divided into Seven types – Five of which are sensory main minds (direct perceivers – see * below) where the person is in contact with his/her sense consciousnesses (visual, auditory, olfactory, gustatory, tactile) and the other 2 are conceptual.
1. *Direct Perceiver - Apprehending an object without making user of an internal image or relying on reasoning.
2. *Inferential Cognizer - The object is realized in direct dependence upon conclusive reasons – where there is smoke, there is fire)
3. *Subsequent Cognizer -Realizes what has already been realized through the force of a previous valid cognizer – For example, realizing an object as a subsequent moments through the power of the first moment)
4. Correctly Assuming Consciousness –Beliefs that depend on reasoning (contemplation on correct or incorrect reason) and beliefs that do not depend on reasoning (impermanence)
5. *Awareness to which the object appears but is not ascertained – Clearly Seeing something without realizing it
6. Doubting consciousness –Mental factors that waver in respect to their object – those mental factors can be deluded (and disturb the mind and may shake our faith – like wrong views and imprints of wrong views) or non-deluded (inquisitive doubting not necessarily disturbing to the mind)
7. *Wrong Consciousness – a congnizer who is mistaken with respect to its engaged object - can be non-conceptual wrong (Such as a ball of yarn mistaken for a spider) or conceptual wrong (such as delusions or wrong viewer: dharma).
Direct Perceivers are of four types. By the type of objects that they take, they are divided according to the complexity (or subtlety) of their appearing objects:
1. Sense Direct Perceiver – Operating with our five sense consciousnesses. A non-mistaken, non-conceptual knower that is produced from its own uncommon empowering condition, a physical sense power.
2. Mental Direct Perceiver – Direct Perceivers that are not part of the sensory consciousnesses. Can be a moment of direct perception (a directly perceiving mind) or a mental power (mental power produced by meditative stabilization). A result of profound meditation of calm abiding. Can result in clairvoyance like knowing others’ minds, remembering past lives, extrasensory hearing, and so on.
3. Self Knowing Direct Perceiver – Self-cognizers . The aspect of the mind that is self-aware and the source of memory. Allows for self-awareness of self – taking an appearing object as another moment of awareness –this notion is accepted by all schools except Prasangika Madhyamaka.
4. Yogic Direct Perceiver – Realizes impermanence and selflessness which are produced in the mind of a superior. Requires calm abiding and special insight. Also requires training and a clear understanding of the complete process of mental cultivation.
Question: According to Buddhism, sense consciousnesses are not merely passive “transmitters”. but do realize their object – like seeing your father (without labeling the object as such which is done by the subsequent conceptual consciousness.) So, I had an experience once where my daughter drove up and stopped in front of me while I was walking and expecting to meet her at her place of work. She smiled at me without saying a word and I did not recognize her as my daughter but rather a nice looking woman. I asked her if she needed directions and when she did not respond, I said I was on my way to meet my daughter and needed to go on my way at which point the woman spoke and said “MOM”. Then I recognized her as my daughter and we were both freaked out (smiley face). So, my concern is that this event does not seem to jive with the notion that the eye can realize it’s object….can you explain this event to me so that it reconciles with the Buddhist view ?
Summary
ReplyDeleteMain mind and mental events not a duality but different functions
A main mind without mental factors can not exist , mental factors without a main mind can not exist.
The sense consciousness perceives the object directly, mental consciousness elaborates with labels, and conceptualization.
All 5 senses are direct perceivers, definition: a non mistaken knower free from conceptuality.
There are 3 beyond wordly mental consciousness's
1) Direct Perceiver: A very advanced practitioner with clairvoyance's, able to remember other lifetimes.
2)Self Knower; directly perceives, has the aspect of an apprehender. The consciousness that experiences eye consciousness is a self knower.
Yogic Direct Perceiver; non conceptual ,non mistaken, exalted knower. The uncommon empowering condition is Meditative Stabilization, the union of calm abiding and special insight.
All three are incredibly powerful minds!!
The 7 types of mental conscious were already covered nicely.
Question: Is the mental consciousness of an ordinary person always conceptual?
Unfortunately I don't have the text he refers to in class, but I have been reading Geshe Rabten's The Mind and It's Functions and Lati Rinpoche's Mind in Tibetan Buddhism. Geshe Rabten uses the same terminology as Geshe Darghye is using, but Lati Ripoche's text is much more detailed with regards to the description of mind. He uses words like Cognizers and Perceivers. From what I can tell these are all different ways of describing the mind, or different ways of classifying the aspects of mind. I'm trying to understand how these descriptions relate to what we are learning in class. Are all the Main/Primary Minds Direct Perceivers? Is Primary Mind a Prime Cognizer? Are Mental Factors Inferential Cognizers?
ReplyDeleteConsciousness can be divided into two types: Contaminated and Uncontaminated.
ReplyDeleteSometimes the two are referred to as Worldly and Beyond Worldly. By practicing
Bodhicitta and Emptiness you can begin purifying the Contaminated Consciousness until it becomes Uncontaminated – even if not entirely pure, it will become much better than before.
Every consciousness is either a Direct Perceiver or Conceptual.
The Five Senses and one aspect of the Mental Consciousness are Direct Perceivers.
The other aspect of Mental Consciousness is Conceptual.
• Mental Direct Perceiving – We have very limited that can only see an image but not through imagination
• Self-knowing perceiving – Only some tenets accept this. It is consciousness perceiving itself. Some say that self-knowing reminds us how we (the subject)
saw an object. Others say that recollection is not from self-knowing.
• Yogic Direct Perceiving is cultivated by meditation. It is “Beyond Worldly
Consciousness.” Impermanence and Emptiness are perceived directly through meditation.
Conceptual thought is ONLY mental consciousness. Most mental consciousness is conceptual except for consciousness perceiving its own image.
Seven Types of Mental Consciousness
1. Direct Perceiver – 5 senses associated with.
2. Inferential – Conceptual only.
3. Subsequent Cognizer – 5 senses associated with
4. Correctly Assuming – Conceptual only
5. Awareness to which Object appears but not ascertained – 5 senses associated with
6. Doubting consciousness - Conceptual
7. Wrong consciousness – 5 senses also associated with.
My question is, would Geshe la please say more about the Mental Consciousness that is
Mental Direct Perceiving? I have in my notes that we have this only in a very limited way that can only see an image but not through imagination. I might have made a mistake in my notes, because in reviewing them, I’m unclear: How does a mental consciousness SEE an image but NOT through imagination?
The class was a further explanation of direct perception and conceptual understanding. Our five sense consciousnesses possess the ability to directly perceive. Our mental consciousness is capable of conceptualizations and three perceptual understandings: self-knowing (which is not accepted by all tenants), yogic direct perception and clairvoyance. Mental consciousness can also be contaminated, uncontaminated, worldly and beyond worldly consciousness.
ReplyDeleteThere are also seven consciousness types which are: direct perception (five sense consciousnesses); inferential cognitions (mental consciousness and conceptual thought); subsequent cognizer (five sense consciousness); correctly assuming consciousness(mental consciousness); awareness to which but is not ascertained (sense consciousness); wrong consciousness (sense consciousness ); and doubt (mental consciousness).
Also discussed the need for empowering conditions; preceding and immediate consciousness; and apprehending conditions in order to perceive all three are necessary.
It seems that clearly marking those things which can be directly perceived from those things which are only concepts lays the groundwork for building the argument for perceiving direct reality and our concept of reality and towards an understanding of nothingness? If one understands that what we perceive, even if it is a "direct perception" is filtered through the minds then it becomes more understandable to conceive of all being a construct of the mind? Is the understanding of the mind merely conceptual as only the Buddha is able to directly perceive the mind? We merely see, as the philosopher Plato said, "mere shadows on the wall of the cave which we perceive as reality and are actually just shadows."